The next morning, Baba asked Vinoo to read a summary of his speech, and then commented, "The basis of creation is nothing but gas, for the first thing to have come out of creation was gas. Except gas there is nothing, and gas is also nothing. But the 'nothing' is ."
Explaining, Baba further stated, "Nana has a peculiar nose; Mona is fair; Meherjee is here. But I say all this is nothing. What is your reply to this statement, Vinoo?"
"Until we experience this as nothing, we presume it to be real," Vinoo replied.
Meherwan asked, "Can we not use the analogy of a dream to show this as nothing?"
Eruch said, "But then people will say, 'We feel and see this as real. So how can this be nothing?' "
"That is exactly what happens in a dream!" Meherwan interjected.
Vinoo said, "If this all is nothing, people will say why should we do anything?"
Baba replied, "No one does anything!"
Eruch asked, "Is it true that the scientists say that there is nothing such as 'matter' and that all is energy?"
Vinoo answered, "This is not so. Matter and energy are inter-convertible. Matter and anti-matter create energy when they come together."
In response, Baba said:
At the November [East-West] Gathering, I explained about the Four Journeys. They are journeys within . There are also outer journeys. Creation is based on gas, and gas is nothing; but nothing is .
Mind is the junction between the inner and outer journeys. There are two outlets, the inner and the outer. The outer (the creation) is nothing but the shadow of the Reality. Just as your shadow is because of you, so also is creation because of Reality. Mind is that which gives substance to matter and energy. If you travel on outward journeys, there are infinitely vast fields in space which contain millions of universes with innumerable suns. There are 18,000 worlds in creation with human habitation. At Meherazad, I have explained more about this to Francis and Eruch.
Scientists will someday have to come to agreement among themselves that there are innumerable expanding and contracting, evolving and dissolving universes. Just as according to varying conditions, a shadow is sometimes bigger and sometimes smaller, so is the case with the galaxies.
How can the mind imagine the vast limitlessness of creation? It cannot. Why not? It is because we try to understand with the mind that which is beyond mind. Mind and energy are absolutely nothing. Hence, all these universes that the scientists find so astounding are also nothing.