"But in spite of all that," Baba interrupted, "if you go see the Viceroy once, you will be able to work in a quieter atmosphere. The present excited [turmoil all over India] will have settled down and be quieter; otherwise, the atmosphere will go to the other extreme [of violence].
"Let me explain," Baba continued. "Your dictum and doctrine of non-violence is out-and-out the best, and I, too, wish this non-violent attitude to be followed and acted on. But I know it is very, very difficult — rather impossible. And that is why I repeatedly ask you to see the Viceroy once in person in order to bring about a spirit of reconciliation between the rulers and the ruled. For, let me tell you once again, if this meeting does not come about, matters will turn from bad to worse. People will turn violent and once violence is adopted, it will be destructive in every way."
"This is quite probable," Gandhi concurred. "We are also afraid of such violence. However, we have to fight for what is right, and we have been advocating and advising non-violence even while fighting [in our battle to persuade the British to leave]. The result rests with the Almighty!"
Baba then explained to him, "Whatever may happen, one thing is certain: India still has much to suffer. I have already told you this before and I repeat it today. But even this 'suffering' is a real blessing in disguise. The more India suffers materially, the better for it spiritually. And we [Masters] only look to the spiritual benefit. If India gains self-government without struggle, suffering and sacrifice, it invites the very grave danger of becoming inclined toward materialism. And this material self-independence would be a check and hindrance on the path of spiritual advancement, which is undesirable."
"You are right," Gandhi said. "Spiritual strength must accompany material power. That is real greatness."
"And for that, one must suffer and sacrifice, but with a non-violent attitude. That is why I repeatedly tell and advise you to go once again and see the Viceroy in person."
The conversation then shifted to Baba's recent visit to Europe and America: